Corporal punishment, hitting your children, beating them to comply; I come from the British System where children are beaten & it is felt the 'best' thing; NO, it never was, I NEVER laid a hand on my
Corporal punishment, hitting your children, beating them to comply; I come from the British System where children are beaten & it is felt the 'best' thing; NO, it never was, I NEVER laid a hand on my
kids, I despise anyone who does this, this dehumanizes a child, person, woman, an adult, this is why shackling was not enough in slave times, they were beaten to strip all power; dehumanize; NEVER do
Exactly! Most kids get the idea after a swat on the tush: “well, I got a spanking for what I did. Probably best for me not to do that anymore.” My mother could stare me down from the choir loft each Sunday (remember when the majority of people attending church at the minimum each Sunday?) if I even thought of misbehaving. She was right. I would have disciplined my children the same.
So do I understand correctly that you equate lack of violence with no discipline — that discipline and violence are synonymous?
I raised children without violence. They are happy, successful, honest, hardworking and are themselves nonviolent. Yes, it took focused and dedicated leadership, and I became a better person because of it.
I was speaking to an army recruiter last year and he said they just can’t get young men that understand authority or are in good enough shape to join the army.
He said too many young men are “pansies” that have been coddled their lives.
The main cause of a child killing is a disciplinary incident gone wrong. All too often mom loses it and starts beating the kid with a vacuum cleaner pipe or similar and the next thing you know there's a dead 8yo girl, or boy, on the floor
The other problem is the side effects
Pumishees do not grow to love the punisher. That's not how it works. The natural outcome of excessive punishment is a deep-seated, sometimes suppressed and hidden, hatred for the punisher.
I can attest to the truth of that from personal experience. It took decades and much effort and prayer to resolve and to get to the point of forgiveness. It’s interesting to observe that my efforts in that regard have paid many, many other dividends, lending the weight of personal experience to the intuition that all things eventually, with God’s guidance, work for good.
I am grateful to have been granted the wisdom to find a better way with my own children, despite my numerous other failings.
Pretty pious and all-around condemning to a constituency determined to make sure their children were disciplined (in the best sense of the word) and respectful. I don’t begrudge your style, assuming it paid dividends. Don’t begrudge me mine. As a cop, I’ve seen more legacies of a lack of discipline than you could ever imagine.
Yep. We see the result of the "time out" generation. And since the 1990's especially, we see the fruit that has been born when people are always trying to find an answer to bad people's behavior that doesn't first address sinful nature and willful disobedience. It gives them "outs" to their behavior and they continue or to worse things. Rudy Giuliani turned NYC around with the "broken windows" policy. NYC was a hell hole in the 1980s. He finally gets in and tells police to arrest people for the minor crimes. People said dont do it . Instead focus on the murderers and rapists and violent criminals. But he showed when you catch criminals early in going down the wrong path, you avoided larger future headaches and crimes. Now under successful adminstrations of DiBlasio and Adams, who excuse a lot of crime, NYC is a hellhole again. I worked in downtown for a while. Would never take a job there now.
My admiration for police officers is almost limitless, but I think as a society we make their jobs more difficult, because we don't address underlying problems that make their responsibilities more burdensome. For instance: how many of those examples you cite as cop also were improperly nourished, had poor or zero role models, had experienced physical and/or emotional abuse and/or neglect, had poor supervision in general, had been exposed to illegal drugs, lead and/or other toxins, and so forth? Likewise, with children, it seems important to examine what underlying issues are causing them to misbehave when they do, and what is the most effective way to address them in a way that won't cause them to continue their misbehavior when they're not supervised.
You can't lead society by outliers. If kids are raised on sugary cereals, pizza bites, and soda, does that give them a pass when it comes to acceptable behavior, especially when they get to teen years and beyond? No. The 1990s really started the era of excuse making for bad behavior, whether in the K-12 ages or beyond. We have to "understand " them. That "understanding" led to excuses being given to people for their behavior and many took that as an "out" for them to continue in it. There is no reasonablfear of authority now. Kids who don't learn that while young at home are done a disservice that stays with them. Then as adults they keep voting for people who promise "cures" that never address the root cause [sinful nature]. So more programs costing more money to try and solve for an ever increasing problem. Adults are more fearful now than they were 40 years ago. Real discipline delayed is a scourge on society instead. And I speak as someone who came from a broken family, literally slept on some cushions on a floor from 18-22, often had only one of two meals a day. But I was a kid who got spanked when I was younger for times when I was willfully disobedient to reasonable requests by my parents. I never thought to steal, hurt others, or vandalize things. "Timeouts" were also tried with me but never worked. But when I got the warning look from a parent that if I didn't stop my behavior, corporal punishment was coming....problem solved. Its the 80/20 rule. Right now we need to focus on the 80 and get back to good discipline,before the 20 will ever be successfully addressed. A societal wide stand is not now in place and we all suffer because of it.
Issues in the majority of the crime infested neighborhoods that love to play the victim game: democrats destroyed the two parent families by giving tax incentives for single mother homes with a multitude of children (that is how they get thousands in tax refunds each year), boys don’t have a father or even a strong mother who PARENTS them, drugs, gangs, no emphasis on getting an education and making something of yourself. Want to see an example? Look up the Daily Mail article yesterday where the child who shot his teacher has his parents holding some kind of press conference taking absolutely no responsibility for their role (or lack thereof) in being PARENTS. That kid was able to use a 9mm handgun in his crimes. No way a child knows how to load and cock that gun. Gun was also not locked up. Those two “parents” were almost blaming the teacher.
We can now turn this discussion to the CRAP that comes out of Hollywood that has destroyed our society, especially the crap that denigrates Christians & the role of the father in a family.
Examples: Married with Children, Everybody Loves Raymond, The Simpsons, even The Honeymooner’s back in the 1950’s, plus many more.
All of the above portrayed the “head of the household” as a weak minded simpleton.
The marxists of the world are laughing their butts off at our destruction & they didn’t even fire a shot.
When my kids were young and did something incorrect, I took them into a room, just the two of us and asked them to explain what they did. I never had to tell them what they did wrong,...they always ended up telling themselves what they did wrong. Then I would ask them what they should have done. The answers came out of their own mouths. They never did dumb things twice and peace was kept getting there.
Not the Catholic Church as you have been led to believe. Tell me where that is in the Bible and please don’t take the Peter reference “upon this rock” completely out of context to justify it.
I believe this is the first thing I disagree with you about. I believe it should be used sparingly, and with proper vocal discipline. We are instructed in the book of Proverbs: Proverbs 13:24 (ESV)
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
I do not believe children should be beaten, but a spanking on the butt will not harm them but will save them.
It is just a lack of alternative or just plain non-creative thinking. There are many good families that don't swat their children. By doing so you're really saying that because you're bigger than them you can do it. I bet you wouldn't want a bigger person swatting you, even when you "deserved it". Nobody deserves to be beaten or physically struck.
Do you always refer to books to form your opinions? Especially books that were written during the times when it was common to crucify people in the town square?
As much as possible, yes. The Triune God of the Bible is the basis of all rationality. Even the rationality of those that pretend he doesn’t exist. The training of children requires patience and a variety of tools, only one of which would be corporal punishment. The crazytown is when the original post implies an objective moral standard and then denies objective moral standards. It’s self-refuting.
Anything to do with the bible is so outmoded, so dark ages. I wish people would limber up and get with the times. We're in a totally different time now, information moves instantly, we have machines, planes, electronics. How can a bunch of unknown men speak about what is relevant today when even in 2,000 years it hasn't helped anyone? Striking anyone smaller than you is abuse, there really isn't any more to it. If you can't think of how to discipline children without abuse then it's you that's the problem and you need discipline first. Children will learn that it's ok for bigger ones to strike smaller ones, that's what you teach. It's just laziness and lack of creativity oh and a big dose of brutality "This is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you" baloney.
What is satanic is religion - a man hanging on a cross, a story like this fed to children to put fear in the minds of everyone from an early age. All talk about "the after life" and no talk about the life here that we know of. It's all male-directed but people don't see. The imbalance is stark - men writing books that hail a god in the likeness of themselves. Yeah, right. If only you know that the bible was written by satanists, the world is run by satanists and everyone bows to their story and obeys.
Raised a Catholic and educated in Catholic schools from the age of 5, I can honestly say, in my experience, the crucifixion was never told to instill fear. It was taught to show the full extent of God's love for mankind.
I'll tell you why the books are still relevant, because human nature hasn't changed one bit from earliest recorded history. As for your theory, Christians built a multitude of hospitals, universities, fed & cared for disabled, widows orphans. Saying it hasn't helped or inspired or comforted anyone in 2000 years leaves your opinion on the level of ignorant, as in completely unaware of your surroundings. If we're just animals then I can't honestly see why behaving like one would even concern you.
It's a net loss. Of course they've done some good things. But overall it's a big loss to humanity to have infiltrated their minds and virtually kept humanity on its knees. You can keep your opinions and we'll just have to differ. Belief in god is fear of life, and of death.
Belief in God leaves me with zero fear of death, life or half baked new (old) age philosophy. BTW-I have little respect for the institutionalized religion. Jesus, on the other hand is radical since he points out the evil & hypocrisy that came from the religious in his time & in Revelations tears a big strip off churches, warning about them selling out. That's largely why it's never taught, it's a mirror for hypocrites to reflect on. RCC, the house on the 7 hills, is the biggest richest manipulative cult in the world. I like the small minority that walk the talk, we go help people where most fear to tread.
Isaiah 11:4 “But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.” So rod can mean force or power over a person or object. Why do people assume some words to be literal and some figurative is just a matter of interpretation. Sorry to see you chose a literal interpretation when patience is probably a greater virtue.
Divine judgement is a far cry from righteous human judgment unless you believe you are omniscient as is God. Somehow, I have a hard time believing you are divine. Impatient yes, divine no.
So, you agree that God’s wisdom literature indicates that it is foolish to withhold corporal punishment when it’s needed. It’s part of God’s divine judgement and wisdom.
NO. Physically harming people includes abortion. It was no fault of the baby that the mother got pregnant, yet liberals kill babies. Physically harming anyone in the name of “justice” is absolutely wrong!
So, you agree that there is an absolute standard of morality. In your mind, what’s the source of that standard? If it’s God, then you must apply His word. For example: properly convicted murderers must be executed. So, your point rings hollow. Perhaps I’m not understanding your idea.
“Beating” them, yes. Please stop the lie that a swat on the tush is a “beating.” That has been leftist propaganda since the Clinton administration. Let me put it this way: why do we have 40 year old and younger people and children not able to cope in life, turning to drugs, cutting off their body parts and turning this country into Venezuela?
There’s a right way and a way to discipline a child. The Bible way.
In our house the child was sent to their room. I never went to their room angry. They would plead sorry. But they knew the consequences. I’d spank with a flat stick about 16” long. They’d cry. I’d cry. Then we’d pray. Then we would go do something fun. Of 6 kids I’m proud of all of them. They all serve the Lord. They all are upstanding citizens with exemplary families. So though I generally agree with you Dr Alexander, this is a subject obviously not in your wheelhouse of research respectability.
As kids, when we misbehaved badly, my dad used to give me and my elder brother the choice of the belt or the hose-pipe. He once smacked me really hard when we were having a screaming match and I jumped out of his moving car. I never did that again. He also smacked me really hard when he caught me and my mate smoking cigarettes in his house. I never smoked a cigarette since then. When I was around 15 years old, he tried to smack me but, before he did, I told him if he did, I'd hit him back, and so he didn't. He never smacked me again.
The worst pummeling I ever got from him though was not with his hands, but with his mind. When I was 16 and my elder brother was 17, we stole dad's key to a small apartment he had on the oceanfront. We got caught. My dad told me: "Your brother Herman is a fucking idiot. But you're not. So I expect more from you".
Those words have stuck with me my whole life. Even when we fell out badly and I left home at 21 years to row my own boat and start a micro business and do all sorts of ventures to pay my own way and my law-school tuition fees. It took many years before dad and I spoke properly again. He came to my law graduation ceremony though and said "I want to pay all the tuition fees back to you".
I said: "no, I never want to be told by you how to live my life. I am free from you. Pay for Herman and control him".
You see my dad came from a strict patriarchal family where his father ruled with an iron fist. I broke the cycle and he always respected me for that.
My Mum was Welsh & was educated in the 20's & 30's where that was the norm. After moving to Canada, my younger brother who was in second grade had problems with his Jamaican teacher who hit him constantly with a yardstick (he was a handful at times, but the worse he got beat, the more he rebelled). One particular beat down sent him home with some bloody marks. All of 5'2" in shoes, Mum walked to the school, took the yardstick from the teacher & beat her arse silly in front of the class. That was the last we saw of her, she quit shortly after.
Aye, she taught us to stand up for ourselves when we're in the right, be humble in victory & defeat, taught all of us to read at grade 4 level before we started formal school, & instilled in all of us the desire to help everyone, esp the underdogs. Her favorite life lesson to teach us kids was The Little Match Girl. She was tough but loving & spiritually she was a warrior who had premonitions that were dead accurate. She helped me understand how to live & survive with that "gift". I lost my mentor too early in life, she could've taught me much more if I'd asked & listened.
I fully agree. The idea that might is right has got to be composted now. We need to practice civility and egalitarianism for all people, young, old, big, small, all. Thanks for reiterating this simple principle.
Agree Dad was loving and kind he never hit us. Mom would on occasion chase us with flyswatter and wouldn't catch us. We respected them and loved them back.
I’m a bit surprised by your share. How many children do you have? I do not agree with it. I’m no bible thumper but find it to be a safe harbor in such matters. Proverbs 13:24: He that spareth his rod hateth his son: But he who loves him chasteneth him betimes. However, IMO there are no “one size fits all” prescriptions in child rearing, and I wish you luck with your choices.
In my circle, unfortunately, the kids who were the most self centered and problematic [meaning they ruled the family instead of the parents], were the "time out" kids. “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him” (Proverbs 13:24). The issue is diligence and timing. Spanking should only be used for willful defiance of a parent's justified request. It is not for when a kid does something accidental. It is not to be done in the heat of anger. I know plenty of kids who had no fear of timeouts. They had no fear of authority structures. Their mind set is "what can I get away with"? Dennis Prager said it well that if kids don't learn to fear the Lord, they will only fear the heavy hand of society through more and more onerous laws. Again, spanking should be measured and swift and done for willful disobedience. I've yet to see any kids who grew up with a parental approach like that who were messed up in life. Instead, they learned that actions do have consequences, and they have a better view on life and eternity. They understand that there are only two possible destinations after death, heaven or hell. God is merciful now to us by disciplining us, so that we can join Him in heaven for eternity. If parents don't model expected good behavior, and consequences now, how can people expect that at the end of their life they will be of the mindset of wanting God and what He desires , if we rebelled in this life. Children need parents, not "best friends". They can have plenty of friends in life, but only 2 patents who are to model God's justice and mercy. For all my kids, I prepared them when they were young [around 2-3] that willful bad behavior/disobedience was not acceptable. They were always given a warning. From that, there were only 3 times in total they chose to still disobey. A couple swats to their covered rears, a stern look, and matter-of-fact explanation was all it took to have them understand the boundaries. And my kids are in no way passive. They love a good time, can be rowdy when appropriate, are very creative and emotionally healthy, and throughout their lives have been told by adults they are a pleasure to interact with, and are never those off-putting teens. So, in conclusion, just like with most other things, adults need to be trained in child discipline. No solution works with 100% of people, but we have to stop always swallowing societal lies about normalcy because of outliers. They are outliers for a reason. Measured, swift, not-done-with-anger, clear discipline of a corporal nature started when a child is young will benefit them the rest of their lives. Maybe if parents didn't toss their kids in daycare, or look to society to be their childrens' disciplinarian, or have kids out of wedlock, or divorce when kids are in the home, we wouldn't have all the gender ideology confusion, suburban Antifa kids, and other large groups rebelling in violent ways. Its starts at home, and it starts with parents lovingly and firmly setting and holding to just boundaries for their children.
Offer solutions, not trolling and outrageous claims. Society has gotten worse and it isn't because of spanking. Authority is ignored. People doing whatever they can because they can get away with it. It is learned at an early age. I've lost count of the temper-tantrum-throwing 3-4-5 year old kids in public stores/amusement parks/etc. I guess mummy and daddy just didn't sit down little Farquart and explain in clear logical reasoning why his behavior was not reasonable in a civilized society. "Oh, you're right mummy, I should never have done that!" Concupiscence is real, and if not address when younger, takes a terrible toll on society. Those who refuse to admit, just lead blind lives.
I questioned and still question the vaunted and self-appointed 'authority' figures including doctors/parents/politicians which is why I didn't get the idiotic mRNA vaccine.
Just because a parent believes they are an 'authority' figure doesn't always make it so. They could be a really sh*tty human being. I never considered myself an 'authority' figure to my daughter. I always encouraged her to challenge me and to challenge ideas when I home-schooled her in the 80s/90s.
Frankly, I have the patience to endure the occasional child throwing a tantrum which is far less obnoxious than an adult road raging or 'frothing at the mouth' over some lunatic 'cause' they are spazzing about.
Abuse and neglect are always wrong and must be stopped and addressed. Not disciplining and letting, allowing, ignoring what they do is harmful and neglectful and another form of abuse.
Just because someone doesn't spank/hit their child does not mean they do not set rules, boundaries and give appropriate consequences for both good and bad behavior.
But, yes, children who are not guided and taught good behavior or left to their own devices or treated like mini-adults are indeed neglected.
Problem is when you have willful children whose goal is to just be disobedient. I've known kids who could care less if they lost entertainment privileges, snack privileges, got sent to their room, had toys removed, etc., etc. What does a family do when there are 3 kids and a 4 year old decides to ruin the day out by tantrum-Ing? Willful disobedience needs an appropriate punishment, and it needs to start at a young age. Coming from a large family, not every kid had similar thresholds of what motivated them to be good. BUT, due to consistency, every kid knew what would bring down corporal punishment. A couple learned the lesson without infraction due to observing older siblings go beyond the fair limits set by our parents. We learned to be on the lookout for "the look". That's where it ended. So, as children we were taught good behavior. But, due to the effects of concupiscence, that didn't assure that boundaries wouldn't be breached. When they were, effective punishments were needed to ensure compliance next time. Unfortunately, too often pharmaceuticals are inflicted on kids, especially boys, to make them behave more like girls (passive and obedient). Ritalin and other drugs were abused on kids. The devastation no fault divorce causes on kids is also inestimable. Society is bearing the bad fruit from many bad decisions related to child rearing.
Can you give us your definition of “beating?”
There is a difference between “beating” a child & giving them a “swat” on their bottom when nothing else works.
My brother never spanked his kids, he liked to “reason” with them.
I witnessed them treat him like crap, especially as they got older with talking back and ignoring them.
They’re older now and they have very little to do with my brother.
On the other hand, my wife and I raised four kids that are productive members of society that respect us to this day.
I guess giving our kid’s an occasional swat on the rear was a bad idea? 🤔
Prov 13:24 - Whoever spares the rod hates the child, but whoever loves will apply discipline.
So again I ask, what is your definition of “beating?”
Excellent, well said. The Bible says discipline your children properly. Failure to do this is failure as a parent.
Exactly! Most kids get the idea after a swat on the tush: “well, I got a spanking for what I did. Probably best for me not to do that anymore.” My mother could stare me down from the choir loft each Sunday (remember when the majority of people attending church at the minimum each Sunday?) if I even thought of misbehaving. She was right. I would have disciplined my children the same.
“When nothing else works”. That is to say when your skill proves inadequate?
Lin,
I’ve coached youth baseball, basketball & soccer for 20+ years and I’ve seen all kinds of behavioral problems.
I’ve had several “un-coachable” kids on my teams & the common thread is poor parenting with no discipline at home.
A mother of a little terror said that she couldn’t spank her child because his “hiney is very sensitive & he cries easily.”
Nice attempt at an insult though!!! 😃
So do I understand correctly that you equate lack of violence with no discipline — that discipline and violence are synonymous?
I raised children without violence. They are happy, successful, honest, hardworking and are themselves nonviolent. Yes, it took focused and dedicated leadership, and I became a better person because of it.
Violence is the refuge of the failed leader.
Lawn,
Go bark up another tree.
I am a success story in life as are my kids and all of them received discipline when needed.
Not “beatings“ but discipline.
By which you mean “violence”. So you agree that your view is that the two are synonymous.
I hope your kids never decide to “discipline” innocent strangers.
You aren’t a veteran are you?
I was speaking to an army recruiter last year and he said they just can’t get young men that understand authority or are in good enough shape to join the army.
He said too many young men are “pansies” that have been coddled their lives.
It's pure laziness and impatience to 'hit/slap/spank'.
If you're going to have children, take the time to actually parent rather than being a corporal punishment deliverance system.
The main cause of a child killing is a disciplinary incident gone wrong. All too often mom loses it and starts beating the kid with a vacuum cleaner pipe or similar and the next thing you know there's a dead 8yo girl, or boy, on the floor
The other problem is the side effects
Pumishees do not grow to love the punisher. That's not how it works. The natural outcome of excessive punishment is a deep-seated, sometimes suppressed and hidden, hatred for the punisher.
I can attest to the truth of that from personal experience. It took decades and much effort and prayer to resolve and to get to the point of forgiveness. It’s interesting to observe that my efforts in that regard have paid many, many other dividends, lending the weight of personal experience to the intuition that all things eventually, with God’s guidance, work for good.
I am grateful to have been granted the wisdom to find a better way with my own children, despite my numerous other failings.
Pretty pious and all-around condemning to a constituency determined to make sure their children were disciplined (in the best sense of the word) and respectful. I don’t begrudge your style, assuming it paid dividends. Don’t begrudge me mine. As a cop, I’ve seen more legacies of a lack of discipline than you could ever imagine.
Yep. We see the result of the "time out" generation. And since the 1990's especially, we see the fruit that has been born when people are always trying to find an answer to bad people's behavior that doesn't first address sinful nature and willful disobedience. It gives them "outs" to their behavior and they continue or to worse things. Rudy Giuliani turned NYC around with the "broken windows" policy. NYC was a hell hole in the 1980s. He finally gets in and tells police to arrest people for the minor crimes. People said dont do it . Instead focus on the murderers and rapists and violent criminals. But he showed when you catch criminals early in going down the wrong path, you avoided larger future headaches and crimes. Now under successful adminstrations of DiBlasio and Adams, who excuse a lot of crime, NYC is a hellhole again. I worked in downtown for a while. Would never take a job there now.
Me too. All of the “It Takes a Village” crap and increases in the divorce rate gave us Millennials, snowflakes and now the furries.
My admiration for police officers is almost limitless, but I think as a society we make their jobs more difficult, because we don't address underlying problems that make their responsibilities more burdensome. For instance: how many of those examples you cite as cop also were improperly nourished, had poor or zero role models, had experienced physical and/or emotional abuse and/or neglect, had poor supervision in general, had been exposed to illegal drugs, lead and/or other toxins, and so forth? Likewise, with children, it seems important to examine what underlying issues are causing them to misbehave when they do, and what is the most effective way to address them in a way that won't cause them to continue their misbehavior when they're not supervised.
You can't lead society by outliers. If kids are raised on sugary cereals, pizza bites, and soda, does that give them a pass when it comes to acceptable behavior, especially when they get to teen years and beyond? No. The 1990s really started the era of excuse making for bad behavior, whether in the K-12 ages or beyond. We have to "understand " them. That "understanding" led to excuses being given to people for their behavior and many took that as an "out" for them to continue in it. There is no reasonablfear of authority now. Kids who don't learn that while young at home are done a disservice that stays with them. Then as adults they keep voting for people who promise "cures" that never address the root cause [sinful nature]. So more programs costing more money to try and solve for an ever increasing problem. Adults are more fearful now than they were 40 years ago. Real discipline delayed is a scourge on society instead. And I speak as someone who came from a broken family, literally slept on some cushions on a floor from 18-22, often had only one of two meals a day. But I was a kid who got spanked when I was younger for times when I was willfully disobedient to reasonable requests by my parents. I never thought to steal, hurt others, or vandalize things. "Timeouts" were also tried with me but never worked. But when I got the warning look from a parent that if I didn't stop my behavior, corporal punishment was coming....problem solved. Its the 80/20 rule. Right now we need to focus on the 80 and get back to good discipline,before the 20 will ever be successfully addressed. A societal wide stand is not now in place and we all suffer because of it.
Issues in the majority of the crime infested neighborhoods that love to play the victim game: democrats destroyed the two parent families by giving tax incentives for single mother homes with a multitude of children (that is how they get thousands in tax refunds each year), boys don’t have a father or even a strong mother who PARENTS them, drugs, gangs, no emphasis on getting an education and making something of yourself. Want to see an example? Look up the Daily Mail article yesterday where the child who shot his teacher has his parents holding some kind of press conference taking absolutely no responsibility for their role (or lack thereof) in being PARENTS. That kid was able to use a 9mm handgun in his crimes. No way a child knows how to load and cock that gun. Gun was also not locked up. Those two “parents” were almost blaming the teacher.
We can now turn this discussion to the CRAP that comes out of Hollywood that has destroyed our society, especially the crap that denigrates Christians & the role of the father in a family.
Examples: Married with Children, Everybody Loves Raymond, The Simpsons, even The Honeymooner’s back in the 1950’s, plus many more.
All of the above portrayed the “head of the household” as a weak minded simpleton.
The marxists of the world are laughing their butts off at our destruction & they didn’t even fire a shot.
Justice: Excuses, excuses, excuses.
When my kids were young and did something incorrect, I took them into a room, just the two of us and asked them to explain what they did. I never had to tell them what they did wrong,...they always ended up telling themselves what they did wrong. Then I would ask them what they should have done. The answers came out of their own mouths. They never did dumb things twice and peace was kept getting there.
I was sometimes hit by the nuns in Catholic School in 3rd grade, including having my head slammed into a cinderblock wall.
This was the beginning of the end of my formal association with Catholicism. I never trusted nuns or priests after that.
Right the hell on! The nuns in the Catholic schools that I went to in the 1950s were sadomasochists. I too have no use for the CC anymore.
I Went to Catholic school and never experienced what you did.
I always thought the little nuns favored the girls.
What church was formed on Pentecost Sunday?
Not the Catholic Church as you have been led to believe. Tell me where that is in the Bible and please don’t take the Peter reference “upon this rock” completely out of context to justify it.
I believe this is the first thing I disagree with you about. I believe it should be used sparingly, and with proper vocal discipline. We are instructed in the book of Proverbs: Proverbs 13:24 (ESV)
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
I do not believe children should be beaten, but a spanking on the butt will not harm them but will save them.
Amen!!!
Snowflake woke libs are destroying our society.
Maybe a well timed spanking would have helped them develop into proper adults that have respect for authority.
I wonder how many “defund the police” types never experienced corporal punishment?
If their own parents refuse to bring these children to heel, I assure you someone will -- and it won’t be a loving parent.
Bring 'to heel'? Good effin' crikey! Children aren't DOGS.
Speaking of dogs...would you ever 'spank' one to get it to 'behave'? How'd that work out for you?
It is just a lack of alternative or just plain non-creative thinking. There are many good families that don't swat their children. By doing so you're really saying that because you're bigger than them you can do it. I bet you wouldn't want a bigger person swatting you, even when you "deserved it". Nobody deserves to be beaten or physically struck.
You are very wrong - a whole lot of people desperately deserve it.
No, Denise, you are wrong. I can just about guarantee I can tell a person’s age by comments like this.
Do you let your boss spank you when you've broken one of the company rules?
I’ll like you take back you obviously obtuse question.
What epistemological basis did you use to form this strange post?
Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
Let me know...I’m happy to discontinue receiving your emails.
Do you always refer to books to form your opinions? Especially books that were written during the times when it was common to crucify people in the town square?
As much as possible, yes. The Triune God of the Bible is the basis of all rationality. Even the rationality of those that pretend he doesn’t exist. The training of children requires patience and a variety of tools, only one of which would be corporal punishment. The crazytown is when the original post implies an objective moral standard and then denies objective moral standards. It’s self-refuting.
Anything to do with the bible is so outmoded, so dark ages. I wish people would limber up and get with the times. We're in a totally different time now, information moves instantly, we have machines, planes, electronics. How can a bunch of unknown men speak about what is relevant today when even in 2,000 years it hasn't helped anyone? Striking anyone smaller than you is abuse, there really isn't any more to it. If you can't think of how to discipline children without abuse then it's you that's the problem and you need discipline first. Children will learn that it's ok for bigger ones to strike smaller ones, that's what you teach. It's just laziness and lack of creativity oh and a big dose of brutality "This is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you" baloney.
wrong - it is ageless and as relevant then as it is now. Your decision to call it outmoded is satanic.
What is satanic is religion - a man hanging on a cross, a story like this fed to children to put fear in the minds of everyone from an early age. All talk about "the after life" and no talk about the life here that we know of. It's all male-directed but people don't see. The imbalance is stark - men writing books that hail a god in the likeness of themselves. Yeah, right. If only you know that the bible was written by satanists, the world is run by satanists and everyone bows to their story and obeys.
Raised a Catholic and educated in Catholic schools from the age of 5, I can honestly say, in my experience, the crucifixion was never told to instill fear. It was taught to show the full extent of God's love for mankind.
I hope you don't mean 'ye old testament':
https://www.youtube.com/c/MauroBiglinoOfficialChannel/videos
You've been spoon-fed a pack of B.S.
Well said.
I'll tell you why the books are still relevant, because human nature hasn't changed one bit from earliest recorded history. As for your theory, Christians built a multitude of hospitals, universities, fed & cared for disabled, widows orphans. Saying it hasn't helped or inspired or comforted anyone in 2000 years leaves your opinion on the level of ignorant, as in completely unaware of your surroundings. If we're just animals then I can't honestly see why behaving like one would even concern you.
It's a net loss. Of course they've done some good things. But overall it's a big loss to humanity to have infiltrated their minds and virtually kept humanity on its knees. You can keep your opinions and we'll just have to differ. Belief in god is fear of life, and of death.
Belief in God leaves me with zero fear of death, life or half baked new (old) age philosophy. BTW-I have little respect for the institutionalized religion. Jesus, on the other hand is radical since he points out the evil & hypocrisy that came from the religious in his time & in Revelations tears a big strip off churches, warning about them selling out. That's largely why it's never taught, it's a mirror for hypocrites to reflect on. RCC, the house on the 7 hills, is the biggest richest manipulative cult in the world. I like the small minority that walk the talk, we go help people where most fear to tread.
Western civilization IS Christianity. Period.
Honestly, it's embarrassing the excuses people will rush to in order to support their own raging on their children and 'control' issues.
The bible made me do it! Derp!
The devil from the bible made me do it! Double-Derp!
Some people don’t draw the line and become abusive- even Christians!!!
Isaiah 11:4 “But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.” So rod can mean force or power over a person or object. Why do people assume some words to be literal and some figurative is just a matter of interpretation. Sorry to see you chose a literal interpretation when patience is probably a greater virtue.
Why would you suggest that the verse you cited of Jesus smiting and punishing his enemies is figurative. The death and judgement is very real.
Divine judgement is a far cry from righteous human judgment unless you believe you are omniscient as is God. Somehow, I have a hard time believing you are divine. Impatient yes, divine no.
So, you agree that God’s wisdom literature indicates that it is foolish to withhold corporal punishment when it’s needed. It’s part of God’s divine judgement and wisdom.
NO. Physically harming people includes abortion. It was no fault of the baby that the mother got pregnant, yet liberals kill babies. Physically harming anyone in the name of “justice” is absolutely wrong!
So, you agree that there is an absolute standard of morality. In your mind, what’s the source of that standard? If it’s God, then you must apply His word. For example: properly convicted murderers must be executed. So, your point rings hollow. Perhaps I’m not understanding your idea.
Nothing is strange about proverbs. I was referring to the original post and went on to positively cite proverbs.
In many cases beating a child makes them believe that violence is acceptable behavior and can also make them a violent person.
“Beating” them, yes. Please stop the lie that a swat on the tush is a “beating.” That has been leftist propaganda since the Clinton administration. Let me put it this way: why do we have 40 year old and younger people and children not able to cope in life, turning to drugs, cutting off their body parts and turning this country into Venezuela?
Even wanting to lay an object or your hands on your child's tuckus is pervy and leads to creepy fetishes in some as they get older.
my voice was enough to make pouty sorry faces. NO Hitting from me
Exactly. One can be strict and even stern without being an abusive bully.
There’s a right way and a way to discipline a child. The Bible way.
In our house the child was sent to their room. I never went to their room angry. They would plead sorry. But they knew the consequences. I’d spank with a flat stick about 16” long. They’d cry. I’d cry. Then we’d pray. Then we would go do something fun. Of 6 kids I’m proud of all of them. They all serve the Lord. They all are upstanding citizens with exemplary families. So though I generally agree with you Dr Alexander, this is a subject obviously not in your wheelhouse of research respectability.
You have some learning to do, grasshopper:
https://www.youtube.com/c/MauroBiglinoOfficialChannel/videos
As kids, when we misbehaved badly, my dad used to give me and my elder brother the choice of the belt or the hose-pipe. He once smacked me really hard when we were having a screaming match and I jumped out of his moving car. I never did that again. He also smacked me really hard when he caught me and my mate smoking cigarettes in his house. I never smoked a cigarette since then. When I was around 15 years old, he tried to smack me but, before he did, I told him if he did, I'd hit him back, and so he didn't. He never smacked me again.
The worst pummeling I ever got from him though was not with his hands, but with his mind. When I was 16 and my elder brother was 17, we stole dad's key to a small apartment he had on the oceanfront. We got caught. My dad told me: "Your brother Herman is a fucking idiot. But you're not. So I expect more from you".
Those words have stuck with me my whole life. Even when we fell out badly and I left home at 21 years to row my own boat and start a micro business and do all sorts of ventures to pay my own way and my law-school tuition fees. It took many years before dad and I spoke properly again. He came to my law graduation ceremony though and said "I want to pay all the tuition fees back to you".
I said: "no, I never want to be told by you how to live my life. I am free from you. Pay for Herman and control him".
You see my dad came from a strict patriarchal family where his father ruled with an iron fist. I broke the cycle and he always respected me for that.
My Mum was Welsh & was educated in the 20's & 30's where that was the norm. After moving to Canada, my younger brother who was in second grade had problems with his Jamaican teacher who hit him constantly with a yardstick (he was a handful at times, but the worse he got beat, the more he rebelled). One particular beat down sent him home with some bloody marks. All of 5'2" in shoes, Mum walked to the school, took the yardstick from the teacher & beat her arse silly in front of the class. That was the last we saw of her, she quit shortly after.
Proud of your Mum.
Aye, she taught us to stand up for ourselves when we're in the right, be humble in victory & defeat, taught all of us to read at grade 4 level before we started formal school, & instilled in all of us the desire to help everyone, esp the underdogs. Her favorite life lesson to teach us kids was The Little Match Girl. She was tough but loving & spiritually she was a warrior who had premonitions that were dead accurate. She helped me understand how to live & survive with that "gift". I lost my mentor too early in life, she could've taught me much more if I'd asked & listened.
What a lovely tribute to your Mum. Inspiring.
I fully agree. The idea that might is right has got to be composted now. We need to practice civility and egalitarianism for all people, young, old, big, small, all. Thanks for reiterating this simple principle.
Agree Dad was loving and kind he never hit us. Mom would on occasion chase us with flyswatter and wouldn't catch us. We respected them and loved them back.
I’m a bit surprised by your share. How many children do you have? I do not agree with it. I’m no bible thumper but find it to be a safe harbor in such matters. Proverbs 13:24: He that spareth his rod hateth his son: But he who loves him chasteneth him betimes. However, IMO there are no “one size fits all” prescriptions in child rearing, and I wish you luck with your choices.
In my circle, unfortunately, the kids who were the most self centered and problematic [meaning they ruled the family instead of the parents], were the "time out" kids. “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him” (Proverbs 13:24). The issue is diligence and timing. Spanking should only be used for willful defiance of a parent's justified request. It is not for when a kid does something accidental. It is not to be done in the heat of anger. I know plenty of kids who had no fear of timeouts. They had no fear of authority structures. Their mind set is "what can I get away with"? Dennis Prager said it well that if kids don't learn to fear the Lord, they will only fear the heavy hand of society through more and more onerous laws. Again, spanking should be measured and swift and done for willful disobedience. I've yet to see any kids who grew up with a parental approach like that who were messed up in life. Instead, they learned that actions do have consequences, and they have a better view on life and eternity. They understand that there are only two possible destinations after death, heaven or hell. God is merciful now to us by disciplining us, so that we can join Him in heaven for eternity. If parents don't model expected good behavior, and consequences now, how can people expect that at the end of their life they will be of the mindset of wanting God and what He desires , if we rebelled in this life. Children need parents, not "best friends". They can have plenty of friends in life, but only 2 patents who are to model God's justice and mercy. For all my kids, I prepared them when they were young [around 2-3] that willful bad behavior/disobedience was not acceptable. They were always given a warning. From that, there were only 3 times in total they chose to still disobey. A couple swats to their covered rears, a stern look, and matter-of-fact explanation was all it took to have them understand the boundaries. And my kids are in no way passive. They love a good time, can be rowdy when appropriate, are very creative and emotionally healthy, and throughout their lives have been told by adults they are a pleasure to interact with, and are never those off-putting teens. So, in conclusion, just like with most other things, adults need to be trained in child discipline. No solution works with 100% of people, but we have to stop always swallowing societal lies about normalcy because of outliers. They are outliers for a reason. Measured, swift, not-done-with-anger, clear discipline of a corporal nature started when a child is young will benefit them the rest of their lives. Maybe if parents didn't toss their kids in daycare, or look to society to be their childrens' disciplinarian, or have kids out of wedlock, or divorce when kids are in the home, we wouldn't have all the gender ideology confusion, suburban Antifa kids, and other large groups rebelling in violent ways. Its starts at home, and it starts with parents lovingly and firmly setting and holding to just boundaries for their children.
How many kids hit/spanked had better outcomes to the children who weren't?
I've had the misfortune of knowing some people who are full-on dark triad and they were spanked in 'Christian' homes.
Frankly, I think 'spanking' is borderline pedo. 'Punishing' a child below the belt is straight up sickening.
Offer solutions, not trolling and outrageous claims. Society has gotten worse and it isn't because of spanking. Authority is ignored. People doing whatever they can because they can get away with it. It is learned at an early age. I've lost count of the temper-tantrum-throwing 3-4-5 year old kids in public stores/amusement parks/etc. I guess mummy and daddy just didn't sit down little Farquart and explain in clear logical reasoning why his behavior was not reasonable in a civilized society. "Oh, you're right mummy, I should never have done that!" Concupiscence is real, and if not address when younger, takes a terrible toll on society. Those who refuse to admit, just lead blind lives.
I questioned and still question the vaunted and self-appointed 'authority' figures including doctors/parents/politicians which is why I didn't get the idiotic mRNA vaccine.
Just because a parent believes they are an 'authority' figure doesn't always make it so. They could be a really sh*tty human being. I never considered myself an 'authority' figure to my daughter. I always encouraged her to challenge me and to challenge ideas when I home-schooled her in the 80s/90s.
Frankly, I have the patience to endure the occasional child throwing a tantrum which is far less obnoxious than an adult road raging or 'frothing at the mouth' over some lunatic 'cause' they are spazzing about.
Abuse and neglect are always wrong and must be stopped and addressed. Not disciplining and letting, allowing, ignoring what they do is harmful and neglectful and another form of abuse.
Just because someone doesn't spank/hit their child does not mean they do not set rules, boundaries and give appropriate consequences for both good and bad behavior.
But, yes, children who are not guided and taught good behavior or left to their own devices or treated like mini-adults are indeed neglected.
Problem is when you have willful children whose goal is to just be disobedient. I've known kids who could care less if they lost entertainment privileges, snack privileges, got sent to their room, had toys removed, etc., etc. What does a family do when there are 3 kids and a 4 year old decides to ruin the day out by tantrum-Ing? Willful disobedience needs an appropriate punishment, and it needs to start at a young age. Coming from a large family, not every kid had similar thresholds of what motivated them to be good. BUT, due to consistency, every kid knew what would bring down corporal punishment. A couple learned the lesson without infraction due to observing older siblings go beyond the fair limits set by our parents. We learned to be on the lookout for "the look". That's where it ended. So, as children we were taught good behavior. But, due to the effects of concupiscence, that didn't assure that boundaries wouldn't be breached. When they were, effective punishments were needed to ensure compliance next time. Unfortunately, too often pharmaceuticals are inflicted on kids, especially boys, to make them behave more like girls (passive and obedient). Ritalin and other drugs were abused on kids. The devastation no fault divorce causes on kids is also inestimable. Society is bearing the bad fruit from many bad decisions related to child rearing.