It's only stunning superficially. It doesn't represent the real picture for deaths due to COVID-19. By the way, about 80% of the whole population is fully vaccinated.
How did what help? If you're referring to the vaccine, it's impossible to know exactly, because the data aren't available. However, from the data that is available, we can see that the unvaccinated are about 5 to 8 times as likely to be hospitalised due to covid as those who are boosted and about 2 to 3 times as likely as the double vaccinated. There is no clear data on deaths.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the exact opposite". Using just the raw data, and allowing for a lag between being vaccinated and the vaccine becoming effective plus a lag between becoming a case and needing hospital treatment, then the unvaccinated are 3 times as likely to be hospitalised as the boosted. However, the data we're given is just for hospitalisions of people who have tested positive for COVID-19. That includes those who happen to be in hospital for other reasons. Indeed, many hospitalised cases are only picked up as cases after seeking hospital treatment for some other ailment, since all hospital admissions are routinely tested. The Directory General of Health mentioned some weeks ago that maybe 50% to 60% of hospitalised cases are in hospital for other reasons. When one allocates 50% to 60% of hospitalisations to the various populations (assuming that there is no difference between unvaccinated and vaccinated people when seeking hospital treatment for other ailments) then the risk factor goes to somewhere between 5 times and 8 times. This is probably an underestimation as it seems more likely that older people will seek hospital treatment for all sorts of reasons.
I'm been tracking these numbers for months trying to get an accurate picture (as I thought that the numbers weren't looking too flash for the vaccines) and discovered that the vaccines appear to be having a pronounced effect, lowering hospitalisations and deaths. As I've mentioned, we haven't got the data to make a definitive statement on deaths but the data on hospitalisations is very clear, even without adjustments I've mentioned. What data do you have? I could probably figure out a way to let you see the spreadsheet I've accumulated (but it's an ODS spreadsheet, using LibreOffice).
Did it dawn on you why the period of 0-14 days post jab isn't allocated to the jabbed? And if so, can you trust any of their data? Or are you completely in peace with the way they collect and present these stats? BTW, who guards the foxes that guard the chicken?
Actually, vaccinations in the NZ data are considered to be effective after 7 days. This applies to all doses and has been in all of the data for months, not just deaths. By the way, there are no data for deaths from COVID-19 broken down by vaccination status.
By the way, I have a lot of problems with what data is published by the Ministry of Health in NZ as it makes analysis difficult but one cannot use the data, as our host has tried to do, to show vaccines have no impact on deaths from COVID-19. You also have not mentioned what data you have which show "the exact opposite". Might I conclude that you don't have such data?
0-7 for NZ then, still doesn’t do the jabs justice. Sure I don’t have the clean data, but I suspect someone has deep down in the Public Health Ontario bunker, at least, as they broke the data on Jab cases into 0-14 and >14 periods, but then lump together different jab cohorts, just to mix it up. One foes what one can under the circumstances. Another way is to just go with the flow and trust everything. Or, like you do, don’t trust anything. But then it’s hard to draw any quantitative, and even qualitative, conclusions.
It's not that I don't trust anything. The data provided is not good enough to do very much analysis. But the data that are provided certainly point to the vaccines being very effective at preventing hospitalisations from COVID-19.
So why do they feel they have to AND falsify the data? 0-14, 0-7? On all jab cohorts. They act like they have things to hide. And they do. So no, I can't share your enthusiasm toward the jabs. And they protect to a certain point, the AEs notwithstanding, and less so with every new round.
As of the 23rd April, 4,087,428 second doses have been given. Total population is about 5,093,500 (Stats.nz projection) which means 80.2% have been what is termed as fully vaccinated.
Vaccination started February 20, 2021. By April 28, 2022 95% of ages 12+ are fully vaccinated (3,977,808), 55% of ages 5 to 11 had one dose (261,367) and 73% of ages 18+ have had a booster (2,627,258)
Yes. Also, 113,893 5-11 year olds have had a second dose. This makes, now, 4,091,701 who've had 2 doses (though not quite the same number have necessarily been fully vaccinated as some people need a 3rd primary dose but I doubt there are very many who've had 2 doses and not had a needed 3rd primary dose - 31,749 have had a 3rd primary).
I just meant that the age group most vaccinated is also the age group that’s most likely to die, vaccinated or unvaccinated. So I don’t know how much of a role jab played.
I personally don’t see a reason for anyone to get the jab since it doesn’t do what a vax is meant to do. Kids especially shouldn’t bc there is nothing but risk for them.
It’s a stunning number but is it that dramatic, in part, bc the oldest age group is the most vaccinated?
It's only stunning superficially. It doesn't represent the real picture for deaths due to COVID-19. By the way, about 80% of the whole population is fully vaccinated.
So how did it help exactly?
How did what help? If you're referring to the vaccine, it's impossible to know exactly, because the data aren't available. However, from the data that is available, we can see that the unvaccinated are about 5 to 8 times as likely to be hospitalised due to covid as those who are boosted and about 2 to 3 times as likely as the double vaccinated. There is no clear data on deaths.
Any references to the data? My data point to the exact opposite.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the exact opposite". Using just the raw data, and allowing for a lag between being vaccinated and the vaccine becoming effective plus a lag between becoming a case and needing hospital treatment, then the unvaccinated are 3 times as likely to be hospitalised as the boosted. However, the data we're given is just for hospitalisions of people who have tested positive for COVID-19. That includes those who happen to be in hospital for other reasons. Indeed, many hospitalised cases are only picked up as cases after seeking hospital treatment for some other ailment, since all hospital admissions are routinely tested. The Directory General of Health mentioned some weeks ago that maybe 50% to 60% of hospitalised cases are in hospital for other reasons. When one allocates 50% to 60% of hospitalisations to the various populations (assuming that there is no difference between unvaccinated and vaccinated people when seeking hospital treatment for other ailments) then the risk factor goes to somewhere between 5 times and 8 times. This is probably an underestimation as it seems more likely that older people will seek hospital treatment for all sorts of reasons.
I'm been tracking these numbers for months trying to get an accurate picture (as I thought that the numbers weren't looking too flash for the vaccines) and discovered that the vaccines appear to be having a pronounced effect, lowering hospitalisations and deaths. As I've mentioned, we haven't got the data to make a definitive statement on deaths but the data on hospitalisations is very clear, even without adjustments I've mentioned. What data do you have? I could probably figure out a way to let you see the spreadsheet I've accumulated (but it's an ODS spreadsheet, using LibreOffice).
Did it dawn on you why the period of 0-14 days post jab isn't allocated to the jabbed? And if so, can you trust any of their data? Or are you completely in peace with the way they collect and present these stats? BTW, who guards the foxes that guard the chicken?
Actually, vaccinations in the NZ data are considered to be effective after 7 days. This applies to all doses and has been in all of the data for months, not just deaths. By the way, there are no data for deaths from COVID-19 broken down by vaccination status.
By the way, I have a lot of problems with what data is published by the Ministry of Health in NZ as it makes analysis difficult but one cannot use the data, as our host has tried to do, to show vaccines have no impact on deaths from COVID-19. You also have not mentioned what data you have which show "the exact opposite". Might I conclude that you don't have such data?
0-7 for NZ then, still doesn’t do the jabs justice. Sure I don’t have the clean data, but I suspect someone has deep down in the Public Health Ontario bunker, at least, as they broke the data on Jab cases into 0-14 and >14 periods, but then lump together different jab cohorts, just to mix it up. One foes what one can under the circumstances. Another way is to just go with the flow and trust everything. Or, like you do, don’t trust anything. But then it’s hard to draw any quantitative, and even qualitative, conclusions.
It's not that I don't trust anything. The data provided is not good enough to do very much analysis. But the data that are provided certainly point to the vaccines being very effective at preventing hospitalisations from COVID-19.
You have to watch this, it should move your perspective somewhat: https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/mark-steyn-on-the-shocking-truth-about-the-booster-jab/
So why do they feel they have to AND falsify the data? 0-14, 0-7? On all jab cohorts. They act like they have things to hide. And they do. So no, I can't share your enthusiasm toward the jabs. And they protect to a certain point, the AEs notwithstanding, and less so with every new round.
Where does the 80% number come from? That’s not what I’ve seen.
As of the 23rd April, 4,087,428 second doses have been given. Total population is about 5,093,500 (Stats.nz projection) which means 80.2% have been what is termed as fully vaccinated.
Vaccination started February 20, 2021. By April 28, 2022 95% of ages 12+ are fully vaccinated (3,977,808), 55% of ages 5 to 11 had one dose (261,367) and 73% of ages 18+ have had a booster (2,627,258)
https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines
Yes. Also, 113,893 5-11 year olds have had a second dose. This makes, now, 4,091,701 who've had 2 doses (though not quite the same number have necessarily been fully vaccinated as some people need a 3rd primary dose but I doubt there are very many who've had 2 doses and not had a needed 3rd primary dose - 31,749 have had a 3rd primary).
Maybe shouldn't have jabbed the oldest then? Start with the kids?
I just meant that the age group most vaccinated is also the age group that’s most likely to die, vaccinated or unvaccinated. So I don’t know how much of a role jab played.
I personally don’t see a reason for anyone to get the jab since it doesn’t do what a vax is meant to do. Kids especially shouldn’t bc there is nothing but risk for them.
I was just practicing my black humour. I got your point.