This is your error: the US was not founded on Christianity and history clearly reports that many people came to escape religious persecution. They held various beliefs and practices and wanted to be able to practice safely. Your belief is not based on fact but prejudice. Of course if you prefer a theocracy there are several you can chose…
This is your error: the US was not founded on Christianity and history clearly reports that many people came to escape religious persecution. They held various beliefs and practices and wanted to be able to practice safely. Your belief is not based on fact but prejudice. Of course if you prefer a theocracy there are several you can chose to live in. But the Bible is your story, not mine. Further, if you actually read the Bible it is filled with contradictions and has been weaponized to promote all sorts of human rights abuses.
Tanya, your leftist/liberal bias/indoctrination is showing. John Adams was an orthodox Christian; he and others had a large role in the writing of the constitution. Implicit in the Constitution are the doctrines of original sin , the fallen nature of Man and the remedy being limited government with division of powers and a federal form that restricts the power of the central government (Lord Acton: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, or words to that effect.
Europe at that time (& even now) was the descendant of Christendom, with the various countries being the result of the Treaty of Westphalia settling the , I believe it was the Hundred Years’ War. This resulted in countries with dominant Christian denominations, which persecuted dissident Christians. The founders were all men of European descent and therefore culturally Christian, if not actually so. To the extent that any of them held heretical beliefs, their beliefs were Christian heresies (not Buddhist Islamist or Hindu). They were also very aware of this history—hence no official state church, the First Amendment etc. & the freedom of religion (not freedom from religion).
Religious freedom and tolerance, though not complete is far more true in countries with roots in Christendom than in any other religion or in atheism, as the 20th century did show.
Regarding your last assertions, the theocracy of secular humanism is the least tolerant of all as the current administration in the US is demonstrating. Your opinion is based on anti Christian prejudice and a shallow & inaccurate understanding of the Bible.
Well, beginning your comment with a critical attack on my political leanings says about it all for your commentary. Your religious ethnocentrism limits your ability to understand that freedom of religion also included freedom from religion as one chooses. And that is a bias at the very least but more like a prejudice which is always a distortion of reality. Further the 'founding fathers' of the Constitution included non-practicing christian types as well as those who did not believe in god at all. And even with those who identified with some sort of religion, they also discussed and knew about the dangers of a religiously controlled polity and so wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights to ensure no religion would ever have the legal right to control this country. It is the essence of the creation of a pluralist society which is the basis for accepting the changes people have gone through with the right to demand full acceptance within our social and legal constructs.
As for your ending comments about tolerance, I suggest you find a way to step back and look at the nature of the bigotry of the Christian communities that promote theocracy. The fact that we didn't have Hindus or Buddhists here 400 yrs ago is due to the obvious fact that it was White, male supremacists who were often the extremist outcasts of Europe that came to promote a settler colonialist project here that was racist and murderous to Native Americans and the Africans stolen from their homelands and enslaved for profit of these white supremacists. These people, southern slave holders, had a strong influence on the Constitution which we still suffer from today as with the Electoral College designed specifically to empower these people despite their minority status in numbers. As for the fundamentalist push for theocracy, you must not be listening to these people who are rising up in the GOP and speaking out without any reserve about this being their goal. I cannot think of anything more intolerant.
As for my personal beliefs, the bias that I hold, which is not prejudice, is based on the violence of western christian religion over the centuries with its totalitarian, hierarchical power structure that it always seeks to impose on others. Given your promotion of christianity as core to this country, my conversation will focus on that and its domination in this country. Actually, Buddhism or Hinduism would have been a boon to this country as they are peaceful religious practices. Please don't tell me how they have been distorted into other expressions. However, if you want to go there, then look at the nature of the politics and economics of the country which is really what it is always about. Religion, a belief system never based on facts but emotional identities, has been weaponized for power and control of the population and the natural resources. Even the Israeli genocidal massacre in Palestine is not about religion but theft of land and resources for profit and power which is the basis for US support of that human disaster.
Your concept of theocracy of secular humanism sounds like a gross distortion of ideas as well as behavior. But I do understand you need to justify and protect your belief system altho i disagree with it and find it based on fiction. It is part of a rabidly bigoted and prejudicial movement that, to be blunt, is pure fascism.
Tanya, you have grown quiet. If you don’t think good and evil are objective concepts, but changeable , or malleable, then you refute your own absolutist condemnation of Western civilization.
One definition of a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged. If that is so, then I hope that you get figuratively, rhetorically mugged.
Oh, and I don’t think that you know what fascism is: government co-opting and controlling private businesses to control the population, as the left is doing & has done under Biden and prior to that Obama.
A democratic republic is what we have, thank God; a democracy being accurately described as 2 wolves and a lamb deciding what is for dinner. A constitutional democratic republic with the Bill of Rights protecting the rights of minorities is what we were bequeathed, for better or worse. Yes , it likely prolonged slavery in this country, but it protects the interests and rights of minorities, be they rural farmers (upon whom even you depend, like it or not), even though those protections have been eroded over the decades.
Oh, and religion was weaponized to free the slaves.
You think you understand, but you understand nothing young lady.
As for the supposed ‘tolerance’ of leftist, secular humanism, I Just point out the current cancel Culture. Also, the tolerance of antifa, Black Lives Matter.
Some other examples of ‘tolerance’ Among leftist include Pol Pot , the CCP, now 10 under Mao, Stalin, the Nazis—standing for National Socialists.
It is laughable that you say that your bias is not prejudice. Your prejudice is obvious. One example is your inaccurate description of the Israeli defense force response to the Hamas massacre of 1200 Israelis, which was unprovoked. It was also part of a pattern of terrorism on the part of Hamas.
As far as genocidal motives, Hamas Explicitly states their goal of eradicating the state of Israel, I.e., what does “ from the river to the sea” mean but genocide for the Israelis. It is only the corruption and incompetence , and internecine Conflict that they have not been able to accomplish that goal. I strongly suspect that you would be OK with Hamas achieving their desired ends.
As for the colonist and Americans purses, the native Americans, native Americans/Indians were scaling each other long before the white man arrived.
As for the sin of slavery, slavery was practiced by victorious African tribes, long before the Europeans colonized sub, Sahara and Africa. They enslaved the tribes that they conquered and sold the slaves to muslim Arabs. Slavery is still practiced in that part of the world. Not among Christians however.
Institutional slavery was eradicated legislatively in England and the British empire, as a result of Christian politicians. Ever hear of William Wilberforce? In the US it took a Civil War to free the slaves, costing the lives of 600,000 Americans. The impetus for that came from Christians. It is very true, and I will grant you that there were other reasons for the Civil War, but to deny that freeing the slaves on the basis of Christian conviction is not a major cause. If not the major cause this, please either ignorance or bias, or both on your part.
The victims of Hindu persecution and violence in India, would beg to differ with you. Ditto regarding Buddhist violence, where they are the dominant religion.
This is your error: the US was not founded on Christianity and history clearly reports that many people came to escape religious persecution. They held various beliefs and practices and wanted to be able to practice safely. Your belief is not based on fact but prejudice. Of course if you prefer a theocracy there are several you can chose to live in. But the Bible is your story, not mine. Further, if you actually read the Bible it is filled with contradictions and has been weaponized to promote all sorts of human rights abuses.
Tanya, your leftist/liberal bias/indoctrination is showing. John Adams was an orthodox Christian; he and others had a large role in the writing of the constitution. Implicit in the Constitution are the doctrines of original sin , the fallen nature of Man and the remedy being limited government with division of powers and a federal form that restricts the power of the central government (Lord Acton: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, or words to that effect.
Europe at that time (& even now) was the descendant of Christendom, with the various countries being the result of the Treaty of Westphalia settling the , I believe it was the Hundred Years’ War. This resulted in countries with dominant Christian denominations, which persecuted dissident Christians. The founders were all men of European descent and therefore culturally Christian, if not actually so. To the extent that any of them held heretical beliefs, their beliefs were Christian heresies (not Buddhist Islamist or Hindu). They were also very aware of this history—hence no official state church, the First Amendment etc. & the freedom of religion (not freedom from religion).
Religious freedom and tolerance, though not complete is far more true in countries with roots in Christendom than in any other religion or in atheism, as the 20th century did show.
Regarding your last assertions, the theocracy of secular humanism is the least tolerant of all as the current administration in the US is demonstrating. Your opinion is based on anti Christian prejudice and a shallow & inaccurate understanding of the Bible.
Well, beginning your comment with a critical attack on my political leanings says about it all for your commentary. Your religious ethnocentrism limits your ability to understand that freedom of religion also included freedom from religion as one chooses. And that is a bias at the very least but more like a prejudice which is always a distortion of reality. Further the 'founding fathers' of the Constitution included non-practicing christian types as well as those who did not believe in god at all. And even with those who identified with some sort of religion, they also discussed and knew about the dangers of a religiously controlled polity and so wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights to ensure no religion would ever have the legal right to control this country. It is the essence of the creation of a pluralist society which is the basis for accepting the changes people have gone through with the right to demand full acceptance within our social and legal constructs.
As for your ending comments about tolerance, I suggest you find a way to step back and look at the nature of the bigotry of the Christian communities that promote theocracy. The fact that we didn't have Hindus or Buddhists here 400 yrs ago is due to the obvious fact that it was White, male supremacists who were often the extremist outcasts of Europe that came to promote a settler colonialist project here that was racist and murderous to Native Americans and the Africans stolen from their homelands and enslaved for profit of these white supremacists. These people, southern slave holders, had a strong influence on the Constitution which we still suffer from today as with the Electoral College designed specifically to empower these people despite their minority status in numbers. As for the fundamentalist push for theocracy, you must not be listening to these people who are rising up in the GOP and speaking out without any reserve about this being their goal. I cannot think of anything more intolerant.
As for my personal beliefs, the bias that I hold, which is not prejudice, is based on the violence of western christian religion over the centuries with its totalitarian, hierarchical power structure that it always seeks to impose on others. Given your promotion of christianity as core to this country, my conversation will focus on that and its domination in this country. Actually, Buddhism or Hinduism would have been a boon to this country as they are peaceful religious practices. Please don't tell me how they have been distorted into other expressions. However, if you want to go there, then look at the nature of the politics and economics of the country which is really what it is always about. Religion, a belief system never based on facts but emotional identities, has been weaponized for power and control of the population and the natural resources. Even the Israeli genocidal massacre in Palestine is not about religion but theft of land and resources for profit and power which is the basis for US support of that human disaster.
Your concept of theocracy of secular humanism sounds like a gross distortion of ideas as well as behavior. But I do understand you need to justify and protect your belief system altho i disagree with it and find it based on fiction. It is part of a rabidly bigoted and prejudicial movement that, to be blunt, is pure fascism.
Tanya, you have grown quiet. If you don’t think good and evil are objective concepts, but changeable , or malleable, then you refute your own absolutist condemnation of Western civilization.
One definition of a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged. If that is so, then I hope that you get figuratively, rhetorically mugged.
Oh, and I don’t think that you know what fascism is: government co-opting and controlling private businesses to control the population, as the left is doing & has done under Biden and prior to that Obama.
A democratic republic is what we have, thank God; a democracy being accurately described as 2 wolves and a lamb deciding what is for dinner. A constitutional democratic republic with the Bill of Rights protecting the rights of minorities is what we were bequeathed, for better or worse. Yes , it likely prolonged slavery in this country, but it protects the interests and rights of minorities, be they rural farmers (upon whom even you depend, like it or not), even though those protections have been eroded over the decades.
Oh, and religion was weaponized to free the slaves.
You think you understand, but you understand nothing young lady.
As for the supposed ‘tolerance’ of leftist, secular humanism, I Just point out the current cancel Culture. Also, the tolerance of antifa, Black Lives Matter.
Some other examples of ‘tolerance’ Among leftist include Pol Pot , the CCP, now 10 under Mao, Stalin, the Nazis—standing for National Socialists.
It is laughable that you say that your bias is not prejudice. Your prejudice is obvious. One example is your inaccurate description of the Israeli defense force response to the Hamas massacre of 1200 Israelis, which was unprovoked. It was also part of a pattern of terrorism on the part of Hamas.
As far as genocidal motives, Hamas Explicitly states their goal of eradicating the state of Israel, I.e., what does “ from the river to the sea” mean but genocide for the Israelis. It is only the corruption and incompetence , and internecine Conflict that they have not been able to accomplish that goal. I strongly suspect that you would be OK with Hamas achieving their desired ends.
As for the colonist and Americans purses, the native Americans, native Americans/Indians were scaling each other long before the white man arrived.
As for the sin of slavery, slavery was practiced by victorious African tribes, long before the Europeans colonized sub, Sahara and Africa. They enslaved the tribes that they conquered and sold the slaves to muslim Arabs. Slavery is still practiced in that part of the world. Not among Christians however.
Institutional slavery was eradicated legislatively in England and the British empire, as a result of Christian politicians. Ever hear of William Wilberforce? In the US it took a Civil War to free the slaves, costing the lives of 600,000 Americans. The impetus for that came from Christians. It is very true, and I will grant you that there were other reasons for the Civil War, but to deny that freeing the slaves on the basis of Christian conviction is not a major cause. If not the major cause this, please either ignorance or bias, or both on your part.
The victims of Hindu persecution and violence in India, would beg to differ with you. Ditto regarding Buddhist violence, where they are the dominant religion.